Curse

Dr Evove · Apr 16, 2008, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Eye of the North = Bad expansion, but you cant seem to pug elite areas without owning a copy. Bottom line seems to be about money. But thats just my opinion, and im usually wrong.

CagedinSanity · Apr 16, 2008, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puzur

As usual when it comes to the discussion about why Ursan is destroying the game the most important issue is missed. The main problem with Ursan is that it destroyes the entire concept of Guild wars. The idea behind it is to make builds that are really good together in a team (or solo if you like) and in the meanwhile you learn how the game mechanism works and improve both your character and your skills as player (and hopefully understands how fun the game can be), and as final challenge of your skills and builds you go to the elite areas.

When Ursan was introduced it took away the entire process of developing both your gameplay and your char, and made it possible to skip the entire path and go for the end at once (elite areas). If there was a way to go from pre-seering directly to the lich quickly arena-net would decide that it needed to be stopped, but when it comes to Ursan noone does anything. I dont know if it is a last attempt to boost sales for a bad product or if there is any other motives like killing GW1 in time for the release of GW2, but Ursan is killing the idea behind the game.

I can reply to this with a quote from another person's post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by odly

I think Anet saw this and gave us the skill that suited this attitude.

Is it good ? Is it bad ? At least it gets things done, where in the past it was near impossible to find groups for elite area's with certain proffessions. And even the 'allowed' proffessions were required to use some specific build to get into pug's.

Not trying to play the blame game, but you should never, EVER, blame a player from using what's given to them.
This is a slight topic switch, but on Gears of War, people grief, bitch, and complain when you kill them a certain way. But the stuff is in the game, so why not use it?

Richardt · Apr 16, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

ANet did give us the skill and I don't fault people for using what's available.

What I do fault is the community abusing it and generally being lazy. I can understand using UB in DoA-the mob design there is just bad. And lets not even talk about Mallyx himself. But using UB to do something in NM....that's just lazy right there.

I also fault ANet for making said skill way overpowered, even when compared to the other PvE skills. And I know most people wouldn't have a problem with it if it didn't overwrite your skill bar and give you such overpowered skills. That's why I'm behind the Avatar idea of the blessings-it brings UB back in line with other PvE skills, keeps your skill bar intact and still makes it a viable skill.

Puzur · Apr 17, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

I can reply to this with a quote from another person's post:

Not trying to play the blame game, but you should never, EVER, blame a player from using what's given to them.
This is a slight topic switch, but on Gears of War, people grief, bitch, and complain when you kill them a certain way. But the stuff is in the game, so why not use it?

If you think that I am aiming my guns towards the ppl playing Ursan you are barking up the wrong tree. I am targeting arena-net and their motives for letting the skill stay as it is. When paras were overpowered they nearly killed all the good skills for them but when it comes to Ursan nothing is done, I have seen the question "Why?" being asked many times, but noone have ever answered it.

zwei2stein · Apr 17, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puzur

I have seen the question "Why?" being asked many times, but noone have ever answered it.

Its is obvious. Imagine what would happen on forums if they nerfed ursan. If people are in "Damned if do, Damned if don't" situation they choose "don't" naturally, its easier and result is about same.

And maybe, MAYBE, devs are actually happy with how it affected game.

skanvak · Apr 18, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

I'd like to have an official from A.net explanation about the Ursan. I think we have pretty much go into all pros and cons. If A.net could explain us why it leave it like it (or plan to change it) it might help every one to accept the situation.

Especially, I am a UB user but I find it boring. I do that because it is efficient. And I am against any skill change. But I made an exception for UB because it goes over the red line. Therefore I am like any one very puzzled about A.net position on it. They kept making change in pvp that are generally useless (imho start another trhread if you want to argue) but does not nerf UB. That why I think the community need A.net to explain their position on this subject.

It is obvious that they know about it (look at the april fool).

May be let's start a petition asking A.net to make a statement on UB?

draugr · Apr 18, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Have been lurking this site compulsively for more than a year, and wanted to weigh in on the UB/Cons/PVE skills issue as it applies to GW.

People who obsess about UB etc. are pretty obviously playing the wrong game. For those who derive satisfaction from comparisons of their pve accomplishments with other players, or who worry lots about the pve environment, there are plenty of "powercreep," "gearcreep," "raidcreep" subscription games out there ala WOW where such concerns would be legitimate. GW is not one of those.

GW is a pvp focused game with limited pve content. It is "pay once" play however long you like, but IMO, was never meant to be the type of continuing pve content game some players expect it to be. Arenanet has done an astounding job of giving value in return for purchase price in comparison to other entertainment software, giving the illusionary expectation to some that it should be as content rich as other pay as you go games. That expectation doesn't make economic sense.

My understanding of the pve aspect is that in exchange for no monthly fees, it is assumed that the pve content will be less expansive than subscription games, and that instead of pve creep (grind), the player will either transition into pvp or move onto a game with more content after exhausting the paid for existing content.

I will certainly buy GW2, the GW1 games were an incredible entertainment deal. I also hope that the developer considers doing a subscription based game in the future, as the quality of entertainment has been high enough that I would pay monthly for a game where more resources could be allocated to content.

To summarize, how exactly do UB and PvE skills "break" PvE in a limited content game where anyone who spends marginal time can get the "imba" skills and use them? Each player decides how to play the game how they want given the EULA and milieu. If you don't like it, you are certainly welcome to complain, but as many others say in different threads, why do you feel it is your responsibility to arbitrate how others play the given content when the only comparisons it affects are in your mind?

AOTT · Apr 21, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

I would point that for many Ursan teams to SUCCEED, they almost exclusively require the use of consumables. This fact in itself should make a statement about the "over powered" state of ursan. (i.e. a team has to blow 7.5k worth of materials and gold to make whatever sum they're attempting to make in whatever area they're in.)

I have personally found that the price of consumables more often than not out-balances the profit I make in the course of an excursion. I have to literally pick up and salvage everything in order to have enough materials for the next consumable set, much less make a profit.

So, as for the "farming" aspect of Ursan... it is vastly inferior to other methods.

The only good/bad/"sin against all players with skill" thing about Ursan is it allows any imbecile with keys 1-8 +c +space to successfully clear an area. That is my only beef with Ursan. Although, even with the baseline requirement of having an IQ of 60 (able to breathe and twitch,) Ursan teams can still fail, which I find quite remarkable...

Bront · Apr 22, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOTT

I would point that for many Ursan teams to SUCCEED, they almost exclusively require the use of consumables. This fact in itself should make a statement about the "over powered" state of ursan. (i.e. a team has to blow 7.5k worth of materials and gold to make whatever sum they're attempting to make in whatever area they're in.)

I would probably put that on the backs of players who could be better or are in a hurry rather than how good or bad Ursan is.

Vengeful Spirit · Apr 22, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

I took a break from GW and came back to this and I don't know much about it but it seems to me that its making everyone the same and dumbing down certain aspects of the game which is definitely something i cannot support because i believe this game should take a certain amount of skill to play effectively

Rene Saliere · Apr 22, 2008, 07:20 AM // 07:20

A lot of pro-ursans talk about fun as if fun = no challenge and no variety.

As I have stated elsewhere there is not much point debating what is an economic decision by ANet, not a game balance decision at all.

EotN is the last chance for ANet to make MONEY from GW1 so it has fulfilled two functions:

1) Made EotN necessary for any player to get a pug in elite areas.
2) Made PvE boring so players will be ready to buy GW 2.

Lastly, Ursan's Blessing confirms for us the predominant ANet developers' views that PvE is beneath contempt, and that PvP is the only place worthy of skilled Guild Warring.

The contemptuous view skilled PvE players now have of Ursanway based PvE, not to mention PvP players who were always elitist anyway, will no doubt, in ANet's minds, prepare the GW1 community for the more PvP/PvE combined content in GW2.

I hate that all of this is true.

Timestop · Apr 22, 2008, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Original posted by Turtle222

"i don't scold anyone for using UB, but you are better off using that than avatar of balthazaar and have me sneer at you for bringing it."

I used Avatar of Balthazar on my dervish char as main elite for aiming for Legendary Survivor and I succeeded in my 1st. try as playing the game not farming. Hero & Hench way. I guess it's not so bad elite after all. At least not in my attempt for going for LS.

CagedinSanity · Apr 22, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene Saliere

A lot of pro-ursans talk about fun as if fun = no challenge and no variety.

Sometimes. Why can't it be?
I don't find "fun" in getting my ass handed to me by a bad pull or added aggro. Challenging, sure, but it hampers my fun.

That's just me, though.

Rene Saliere · Apr 24, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by CagedinSanity

Sometimes. Why can't it be?
I don't find "fun" in getting my ass handed to me by a bad pull or added aggro. Challenging, sure, but it hampers my fun.

That's just me, though.

Then stay in Pre-Searing.

zwei2stein · Apr 24, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timestop

I used Avatar of Balthazar on my dervish char as main elite for aiming for Legendary Survivor and I succeeded in my 1st. try as playing the game not farming. Hero & Hench way. I guess it's not so bad elite after all. At least not in my attempt for going for LS.

Of course skill that gives you +40 armor is not really bad when you are attempting for survivor. It is bad when you are trying to do what dervishes do best: Deal Damage.

However if you take into account all elite dervish skills, you do have better options than just sticking with "stuff that worked so far".

But that point is moot at current state of game, people don't need to discover power of melandru or of good builds when they can go directly to ursanwaying everything.

Zena Starlight · Apr 25, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Right now, I am complete for Ursan. If a skill can simplify the thinking it takes to make a real skill bar go for it. It is quite depressing to go into Hell's Prepice and try a PUG, and during the mission the Nerco is trying to e-denial monsters with malaise with his massive hp amount of 300. Or having a ranger that refuses to continue without rezzing his pet near the Armageddon lord. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but he has revive animal on his skill bar instead of comfort animal. So while we continue to fight, hes trying to pull the monsters and almost gets us wiped. I don't think I even need to mention all the horrible skill bars I saw there.

Oh well. Theres my little Ursan>PvE rant.

Palek · May 15, 2008, 09:35 AM // 09:35

In abbreviation MMORPG - Massive Multiplayer Role-Playing games it is represented to me the most important two first a words: Massive and Multiplayer. It is obvious, that successful on-line project becomes only the one who has managed to collect a lot of players. But how it is possible to involve? Graphics?? Gameability? Excellent world? Not the main thing. The main thing - interaction of players, communities. Not war with monsters is main in such games, but war with others humans. While (or already) I do cannot be allocated in a real life, I try to be allocated in game. But for this purpose the audience, ranks, career is necessary...
If the manufacturer of game makes the rate on PvE, for deduction of players he should enter constantly new ranks, buffs, the weapons. And certainly, monsters for whom all this can be used. But in due course in such game there is an elite of players which have achieved heights. To rise up to their level to the beginner it is difficul}. Months, and even years he should farm, study game, raise qualification. As in a life. And what for, if the player comes to game that it to achieve quickly?
A-net has staked on equality of players and fast career. 20-th level it is possible to reach for couple of days. Well even a week - on search necessary skills and the weapon. Plus absence of a user's payment - all is made on attraction of a mass audience. But has passed more than 2th years. Over 2 million players - probably a limit for such game (at WoW> 6 million). And here A-nеt solves: GW2 it is still far, money for development of the project are necessary how still to involve an audience? And let's make so that beginners could take all quickly! Also enters all over again heroes, then PvE-скиллы which deification became Ursan Blessing. Inflation? Yes. But it in fact stimulates economy. Then a collapse, but it - then. We hear obvious message A-net: to us to spit on PvE. We shall develop only PvP. And still: I think, that in GW2 there will be a user's payment. The audience has already developed, anywhere will not get to.
PvE was dead - Long live to PvP!
I do not play PvP, only PvE. It is a pity to me, that so all happens. But saw it in other on-line games and is similar, it is inevitable. People share on two kinds: that, 1. Who likes to earn something and on those, 2. Who likes to possess it simply. Among teenagers the group (2) - is much more. Having analysed gamers, A-net has staked on them, not-experience players. It is her choice. More senior and intelligent part of players will leave. Whether it is bad? Yes, becomes less than competent players. But becomes less "elitism".

Pebbles · May 15, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Ursan annoys me simply because It makes every class irrelivant... I have a warrior A warrior was my first character however I almost never play him.

Why? I find it boring I prefer to pick my targets rather than charge in and smash brains.

This is why I since play a Monk and an Elementalist. Although I often disliked the stupid rigidity of the builds I was pressured to play. I accepted it occasionally rejecting them and using my own build because it was least somewhat how I liked to play the game my alterations would sometimes give me an edge or serve a negligible weakness.

But this isn't even close to what I signed upto. ¬_¬ And there is no way I can compete not using ursan I've tried using my best Water/Fire/Earth builds specialize for various regions they fall short in every category, They fall somewhat short in damage because Ursan is armor ignoring My attacks make them scatter, I can't maintain my Max output for as long as ursan. My defense is always lower even with an earth Or air build.

To speak for Ursan is advocating a world where nothing but Ursans and monks exsist because nothing else is worth taking.

isamu kurosawa · May 15, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pebbles

Ursan annoys me simply because It makes every class irrelivant... I have a warrior A warrior was my first character however I almost never play him.

Why? I find it boring I prefer to pick my targets rather than charge in and smash brains.

I suggest you give your warrior another try. A good warrior doesn't just run in and "smash brains". Target selection is more improtant for a martial class than a fire ele for one.

You never know, you may end up enjoying it. At the least it will give you something else to do while others use ursan

squiros · May 17, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

ursan Could be considered overpowered. or it can be viewed that many have underpowered builds. for example, there are chars that very easily exceed damage dealt by ursan in most cases, and also have far higher survivability. in our parties, ursan is the limiting factor, not the superior build. with or without consumables.

it takes very little skill: but if the build that's being used requires high skill and can't accomplish what ursan can, then perhaps the problem is the build, and not ursan. if the build is so good, that ursans are inferior, then the complaint against ursans is actually justifiable. if anyone has the complaint 'i hate ursans because they die easily and deal little damage', please post your build =)